Business
Happy 2025 everyone!
Freelancing offers freedom and flexibility, but it can also come with unexpected challenges—especially when business promises start to fall apart. In this episode, Gab and Gelo discuss critical lessons learned from real freelancing experiences of our letter sender, including how to establish clear expectations, the importance of written agreements, and the need to set boundaries with clients and partners.
From defining the scope of work upfront to knowing when to say no, this conversation provides practical advice that can help you avoid common pitfalls and protect your time and energy. If you want to learn how to navigate freelancing with more confidence and fewer surprises, this episode is for you.
Transcript Summary:
00:00 - 00:50
Gab: The episode opens with Coach Gab welcoming listeners to a new episode of SEO Kwentuhan, mentioning a special story from one of their listeners.
Gab: Introduces the episode as a special feature and mentions that Coach Gelo will be joining him for this story.
Gelo: Explains that this episode is the first in a series called SEO Freelancers Story. It’s a collection of real-life experiences shared by freelancers, and this specific story is from a listener who encountered challenges in the freelancing world. Gelo teases that the full details are available on their website and Facebook page.
Gab: Further explains that they’ll be discussing the story in a summarized format.
01:00 - 03:08
Gelo: Reads out a brief email from a listener, summarizing their freelancing journey. The listener shares their experience as a team leader (TL) in a community of 28,000 members. They were encouraged by a co-TL, "SEO Expert Girl," to dive into SEO. This led them to leave the community to join her in building her agency, with promises of a 25,000 monthly salary, revenue share, and SEO training.
Gelo: Continues reading, detailing how things quickly turned toxic. Despite the promise of a salary and training, the listener’s new boss demanded long hours, sometimes from Monday to Sunday, without pay. The boss earned a significant amount (200,000 in sales) but only provided an 8,000 payout. There was also pressure to meet an unrealistic 500,000 sales quota for salary, which was unclear from the beginning.
Gelo: The listener shares more about the toxic work environment, where the SEO Expert Girl treated the team poorly, demanding meetings that lasted 4-6 hours and even calling out team members for minor things like being sick or traveling to support her. The listener eventually resigned, and the SEO Expert Girl spread negativity, blaming them for the struggles of the business. Despite the hardship, the listener feels they’ve learned from the experience and moved on.
03:08 - 04:44
Gab: Reacts to the story, expressing empathy for the listener’s experience. He reflects on how such situations can happen in freelancing, especially when someone is too trusting of a business partner without knowing the full scope of the arrangement.
Gelo: Asks Gab what lessons can be drawn from the listener’s experience. Gab answers, emphasizing the importance of thoroughly vetting potential business partners before committing to a partnership, even if they appear trustworthy at first.
Gab: Continues, stating that while it’s easier to trust someone you know (like his wife, for example), in freelancing and business partnerships, it's crucial to understand the person’s background and intentions. He stresses that business partnerships should always start with clear discussions and agreements.
04:44 - 06:43
Gab: Advises that one should have several meetings and clearly outline the responsibilities and returns expected in any business partnership. He reflects on his own experiences with agency partnerships, where clear contracts and regular meetings were essential to ensure everyone understood their roles and obligations.
Gab: Discusses the importance of formal agreements, sharing that his experience with partnerships has always been with clear written contracts that help define roles and expectations. He mentions how he and his business partners have always worked together to ensure the partnership’s success.
Gab: Concludes the section by underscoring that clear, written contracts are essential in freelancing and business relationships, to avoid misunderstandings and to ensure that everyone is on the same page regarding deliverables and expectations.
06:43 - 07:38
Gelo: Emphasizes the need to understand the terms of an agreement before moving forward. He shares that even if you know the person, it’s important to protect your interests with formal contracts to prevent future issues.
Gab: Reiterates that while it’s great to feel like you know someone well, it’s still crucial to make sure that everything is clearly outlined and agreed upon before committing to anything significant.
Gelo: Reflects on how easy it is to get caught up in the excitement of a new partnership, especially when the person seems trustworthy, but he warns that not every partnership, even with close contacts, turns out to be as expected. He stresses the importance of being cautious and learning from past experiences.
07:38 - 08:40
Gab: Agrees, highlighting the importance of self-learning and protecting oneself in the business world.
Gelo: Then brings up the importance of having written agreements, stressing that verbal agreements can often be unreliable, as demonstrated by the listener’s story.
Gab: Concurs, stating that many freelancers forget the importance of formalizing agreements. He suggests that they might rush into things without proper contracts because of trust or excitement but that it’s always better to take the time to protect one’s business and personal interests.
Gab: Further discusses how, in the listener’s case, the lack of a formal contract left them vulnerable. He emphasizes that even if the people involved seem like friends or trustworthy, the lack of clear documentation can cause major problems down the road.
08:41 - 10:01
Gelo: Agrees, and mentions that, as freelancers, they sometimes find themselves in situations where an informal agreement or handshake deal turns into a problematic situation because of unclear expectations. He shares his own experiences with business relationships and emphasizes the need for documentation and legal protection.
Gab: Concludes by noting that contracts, such as service contracts, are crucial to ensure that both parties are protected, especially in scenarios where deliverables and expectations are involved. He talks about how such agreements help define the scope of work, set deadlines, and provide clear boundaries to avoid misunderstandings.
Gab: Gives a reminder of the importance of having agreements in place to protect freelancers from situations like the one shared in the story. Without contracts, it's easy to encounter problems that can be avoided with proper documentation.
10:01 - 10:32
Gab: Talks about the importance of having a clear and formal agreement (a contract), emphasizing that this should be in "black and white" to avoid misunderstandings. He explains that having a contract is critical for legal clarity.
Gelo: Agrees, stressing that a contract must be in black and white to ensure transparency and clarity in business dealings.
Gelo: Shares that in a partnership, there should be clear terms and expectations. He mentions that the project didn’t have any clear percentage breakdown or formal agreement. He adds that while there was talk about a digital product and expertise, things weren't fully settled.
10:33 - 12:28
Gab: Further explains that the arrangement seemed to be about a fixed monthly income, plus commission. He mentions that it could have been more clear, especially for something related to digital products.
Gelo: Reflects on how the situation became unclear and discusses how important it is to have clear contracts to manage expectations, particularly when the team or leadership is involved in setting goals and tasks.
Gab: Shares from his experience, stating that one of the most important things to do in the initial meeting is to define the scope of work. This sets clear expectations for the team or client so that unrealistic demands don’t emerge later on. He mentions the importance of setting boundaries early in the process.
Gab: Continues, emphasizing the need to clarify the hours of work and the tasks expected in the scope of work. He stresses that setting these expectations early can avoid confusion later, especially when it comes to bigger projects or clients with significant demands.
Gab: He talks about how understanding the scope of work for different types of tasks is crucial. Sometimes, clients may not fully understand what’s required, especially when it involves a larger team or a more complex project, like SEO for big brands.
12:28 - 14:31
Gab: Again underscores the need to clarify the scope of work. He mentions that, without clear communication, clients may not understand the cost or the workload involved in tasks, leading to confusion or dissatisfaction.
Gab: Reminds that a formal agreement should set these boundaries, particularly in the early stages of collaboration.
Gelo: Provides an example of a problematic situation where a team leader (referred to as "Sender") set unrealistic expectations for the team. Gelo explains that at first, everything seemed fine, but later the demands became excessive. He mentions long working hours, including weekends, with no additional compensation.
Gelo: He continues the story, explaining that despite a huge sale (worth 200,000 pesos), Sender still demanded more work from the team. Gelo describes how the team leader's expectations became unreasonable, with long meetings on Sundays that were not even properly compensated.
Gelo: Emphasizes that the demands became overwhelming, especially with 4 to 6-hour meetings that seemed more like brainstorming sessions. He points out how difficult it was to balance these work expectations with personal time.
14:40 - 16:21
Gelo: Further discusses the increasing pressure and how Sender’s expectations escalated despite no increase in pay or reward. He highlights the importance of setting boundaries and not being forced to give in to unrealistic demands.
Gab: Discusses his own experiences with similar situations, sharing that when he started in SEO, he too would often work weekends despite receiving low pay. He mentions that learning the process was important, but that over time, this pattern became unsustainable.
Gab: Explains that when he began in SEO, he had a similar experience of working long hours and learning by doing. He recognizes that Sender’s situation mirrors his own early career struggles.
Gelo: Reflects on the situation and shares how this became a learning experience. Sender, despite the challenging work environment, eventually came to understand the realities of SEO. Gelo suggests that this kind of learning can be valuable, especially in professional growth.
16:22 - 17:27
Gab: Shares his advice on how to set boundaries with a demanding manager or team leader. He talks about the importance of clearly communicating availability and expectations. He gives an example from his own work, where he set strict availability hours with clients, which helped maintain a work-life balance.
Gab: He further advises setting clear expectations about the hours you are available, especially when it comes to weekends or family time. Gab stresses that clear communication helps avoid misunderstandings about work hours and personal time.
18:26 - 19:47
Gelo: Talks about how managing client expectations is key to maintaining healthy relationships. He emphasizes that boundaries must be set, especially when it comes to meetings and deliverables, and that you must protect your personal time while balancing work commitments.
Gelo: Wraps up the discussion on work-life balance by highlighting how managing boundaries and expectations can prevent work from overwhelming personal life. He reflects on how Sundays, especially, should be preserved as family time.
19:47 - 20:28
Gab: Discusses the challenges and lessons learned from a negative experience related to learning SEO. Gab reflects on how this person, whom they are advising, has been trying to upskill through social media and SEO. Gab highlights that this individual should seek a mentor to guide them properly, as many people tend to make mistakes when they don't have proper mentorship. The advice includes taking the time to understand SEO properly and not rush into it without proper guidance.
Gab: Continues to discuss how this person, who was involved in a partnership, should move forward after experiencing a setback. Gab advises that they should move on from the partnership, as it seems to be not working well. The key suggestion is that the individual should focus on growth and improvement, even after a bad partnership.
20:28 - 21:36
Gelo: Appreciates the individual’s realization that, despite the pain, they need to let go of the things that are holding them back. Gelo shares the personal insight of their own coach, who advised them to "let go of everything that is holding me back." Gelo points out that the person seems to be maturing by focusing on what they can control instead of blaming others. Gelo emphasizes the importance of emotional resilience, letting go of hatred, and recognizing that not everything works out as planned.
Gelo: Further discusses how the person in question should focus on what they can control rather than worrying about the behaviors or actions of others, especially those involved in their partnership. They acknowledge that things did not work out with this particular person and that it's important to move on from toxic relationships.
21:36 - 22:11
Gelo: Praises the person for courageously sharing their experience and reaching out for advice. They recognize that this situation is unfortunately common in the industry and that shedding light on it helps others learn from such experiences. Gelo also stresses that the intent is not to gossip, but rather to inform and raise awareness about such challenges in the SEO community.
Gab: Shifts focus to those who are just starting to learn SEO. They acknowledge that many beginners face similar struggles and don't always know what the right steps are. This makes them vulnerable to potentially misleading advice or unproductive practices. Gab stresses the importance of awareness for newcomers and advises them to be cautious and ensure they are learning from reliable sources.
22:11 - 23:57
Gab: Shares their observations on SEO interns working for free in exchange for learning opportunities. They mention that while this can be a win-win situation if the intern is genuinely learning, there’s a potential danger when the situation becomes exploitative. Gab mentions that working for long hours, such as 4-6 hours on weekends, without a clear contract or understanding of compensation is not sustainable. They caution against putting oneself in a position where the workload becomes unhealthy and disproportionately benefits the employer.
Gelo: Discusses the ethics of paid vs. unpaid internships. They reflect on how some companies offer unpaid internships with the promise of training, while others claim to pay interns. Gelo emphasizes the importance of understanding the logic behind internships and whether or not it is truly a valuable opportunity. There’s an open question on whether internships should be compensated or if they are only valuable for the experience.
24:04 - 25:07
Gab: Brings up a comparison to nursing internships, where hospitals typically do not pay interns but offer them training in exchange for work. Gab notes that this model is common in industries like healthcare but acknowledges that not all industries operate the same way. The discussion veers into whether or not this model is applicable to SEO internships, as it is not always clear-cut.
Gelo: Encourages listeners to share their own SEO experiences and internship stories to help create a more transparent and supportive community. They stress the importance of sharing knowledge and lessons learned to help others avoid the same mistakes. Gelo mentions that they would be happy to read and discuss listeners' stories in future episodes.
25:08 - 26:24
Gab: Promotes their SEO technical course and upcoming discounts, encouraging listeners to join their course by the end of the year. They also mention their SEO-related merchandise, highlighting a special sale offer with free shipping. Gab explains that the products available for sale feature various designs that can be useful for conferences and meetings.
Gab: Explains that part of the proceeds from the sale of their merchandise will go towards charity. They share that 50% of the profits from the sales made between December and January will be donated to a charity event. Gab encourages listeners to support their efforts in helping others while also gaining useful SEO knowledge and products.
Gelo: Thanks listeners for their support and encourages them to continue engaging with the content. They close the episode by expressing hope that the SEO stories shared will help others navigate the industry better. The episode ends with a final shout-out to listeners, urging them to send in their experiences and to stay tuned for the next episode.