About

In this episode of the SEO Kwentuhan podcast, Gab and Gelo share the compelling story of a long-time freelancer who faced a tough decision between two clients—one loyal but increasingly demanding, and another offering a better rate and opportunity for growth. Titled “You Lost Your Heart On Your Job,” the listener’s tale highlights the complexities of freelancing, from navigating overwhelming workloads to recognizing when it's time to move on for better prospects. The story underscores the challenges that many freelancers encounter, such as negotiating rates, maintaining work-life balance, and managing relationships with clients who may not always appreciate the value you're providing.

Gab and Gelo offer practical advice on handling these situations, including how to set boundaries, know your worth, and negotiate effectively. They also touch on the importance of maintaining professionalism—even when things go wrong—with the potential for future referrals or even a client comeback. The episode is packed with insights on client management, the art of negotiation, and the mindset needed to stay motivated in the face of rejection or unexpected changes in your career. If you're a freelancer navigating similar challenges, this episode offers both a cautionary tale and a roadmap for thriving in a competitive and ever-changing industry.

Resource for you:

Comprehensive Guide for Salary Negotiation + Template:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOr3sbYPAW4

Transcript Summary

00:00 - 01:24

Gab: Introduces the episode, sharing that the third story comes from a listener titled "You Lost Your Heart On Your Job." He mentions that the title seems heavy and somewhat "fishy," expressing curiosity about the story.

Gelo: Responds humorously, showing his love for his job. He then begins to read the listener’s story. The listener has been freelancing for 12 years and specializes in link building. In 2019, they were hired as a link prospector at a US SEO agency and worked under a mentor who taught them the ropes of link building. The listener explains how they moved from development work to focusing on link building.

01:24 - 02:34

Gelo: Shares that the listener worked hard and was proactive, even managing their own notifications to stay focused on the work. They mention how the listener was dedicated and went above and beyond, managing emails and other tasks even when they were not instructed to do so.

Gab: Comments on the listener's proactive attitude, adding that turning off notifications during weekends to avoid work stress shows a real commitment to the job.

02:34 - 04:08

Gelo: Explains that while the listener initially felt appreciated and even became a business partner in the agency, the workload soon became overwhelming. Despite meeting quotas, the expectations started to increase, and the relationship soured when the client began nagging the listener.

Gab: Empathizes with the listener, noting how overwhelming it can be when expectations shift like that. Gelo adds that the listener had another offer from a different client, which prompted them to reconsider the relationship.

04:08 - 05:47

Gelo: Talks about the listener deciding to move on, choosing the higher-paying client over their current one. He mentions how this shift was also influenced by advice in freelance groups that suggest negotiating for better rates.

Gab: Adds that this is a common scenario, especially in platforms like Upwork, where job offers can come unexpectedly, even when you're already employed.

05:47 - 06:55

Gelo: Shares that the listener discovered they had been removed from the project, receiving an email saying their "heart was no longer in the work." Despite the separation, the listener remained professional, thanking the client and apologizing for the misunderstanding.

Gab: Acknowledges that despite the awkwardness, the listener handled the situation with confidence. The listener has since received messages from the old client, who wants to hire them back, but the listener is happy with the new opportunity.

06:55 - 07:59

Gelo: Humorously mentions that the old client is now messaging the listener even on holidays, but the listener remains firm in their decision. Gelo reflects on how hard it can be to choose between two clients, especially when one has been loyal but the other offers better compensation.

Gab: Agrees that it’s tough to make that call, but highlights that the listener’s choice of the higher-paying client seems like a smart move.

07:59 - 09:23

Gelo: Mentions freelance groups and resources where tips on how to handle negotiations and rates are shared. He references Remit Sety’s YouTube channel, "I Will Teach You To Be Rich," which includes step-by-step negotiation tactics for freelancers.

Gab: Notes that these tips aren’t just for employees but also for agency owners who may have to negotiate service rates with clients.

09:23 - 11:23

Gelo: Introduces the next segment of the podcast, where they will dissect the listener’s story and discuss the signs of toxic clients. He asks Gab how a freelancer can recognize when a client is becoming toxic and whether it’s time to reconsider the relationship.

Gab: Draws on a previous episode discussing "red flag clients" and mentions that while it’s easy to spot red flags with new clients, it can be more difficult to recognize them in long-term relationships. He reflects on the impact of increased workload without appropriate compensation or support.

11:23 - 12:52

Gab: Discusses how agency owners need to manage increasing workloads by hiring more people or training new team members. He reflects on his experiences with toxic clients, noting that sometimes it’s not the client who’s toxic but rather unmet expectations on the service provider’s part. If you promise results (like increased traffic) but fail to deliver, clients can feel frustrated and may seem toxic.

Gelo: Asks Gab if he’s ever had experiences where a client’s attitude changed over time. Gab confirms that it often happens, especially with long-term clients, as they adapt strategies or expect more without properly communicating.

12:52 - 14:12

Gab: Elaborates that when clients work with an SEO strategy over a long period, they may adapt and change it themselves, especially if they have in-house SEO teams. This can lead to stagnation in results, which might make clients dissatisfied, even though the strategies are still effective.

Gelo: Asks why this shift in attitude should be considered toxic. Gab explains that while some changes are natural, conflicts arise when there’s a misalignment in expectations or communication. External factors, like economic conditions or other stressors, can also contribute to the growing toxicity of a client relationship.

14:12 - 16:04

Gab: Mentions external factors that might contribute to a client’s stress and attitude shift. He cites examples like economic recession or even natural disasters (e.g., wildfires in California) affecting businesses, making it essential to be mindful of a client’s external pressures and the impact these might have on the relationship.

Gelo: Agrees, pointing out that it’s important to consider what might be influencing the client’s behavior beyond just the work itself. Gab emphasizes that being aware of these factors can help prevent conflicts and better manage client relationships.

16:05 - 17:17

Gelo: Raises the importance of setting boundaries in freelancing, such as defining clear working hours and areas of responsibility. He uses the example of limiting communication to certain hours (like 9 PM to 12 AM) to avoid burnout and to maintain a work-life balance.

Gab: Adds that setting boundaries also means communicating limitations to clients. For example, if a freelancer only handles SEO or link building and not SMO or email marketing, they need to make that clear. This helps clients understand the freelancer’s expertise and prevents unrealistic expectations. He stresses that freelancers should be upfront about their strengths and areas where they might need additional support or a larger team.

17:17 - 18:41

Gelo: Gives examples of how to communicate boundaries, such as establishing maximum response times (e.g., replying within 24 hours) and setting clear expectations about holidays and time off. He shares his personal approach of using asynchronous communication—such as recorded video updates—rather than frequent meetings, to streamline interactions with clients.

Gab: Agrees with the importance of clear communication and setting proper expectations from the beginning of a project. By making these boundaries clear, both parties can respect each other’s time and avoid misunderstandings later on.

19:27 - 20:58

Gelo: Introduces the question of how freelancers can know their worth and when to negotiate their rates. He acknowledges that it’s a challenging topic, as it depends on the freelancer’s skills and experience. He highlights that the listener in the story knew their worth and confidently negotiated their rate.

Gab: Reflects on the listener’s ability to negotiate their rate and emphasizes that freelancers should assess their skills and expertise. He advises that if more than 80% of digital marketers can do a task, it might be time to raise rates. He suggests that even a rate of $50 per hour can be a fair starting point for those with a specialized skill set.

20:58 - 21:11

Gab: Further explains that freelancers should assess their skill set relative to the market. If they possess rare skills or experience, they can confidently raise their rates. He mentions that the listener’s ability to take on challenging tasks and provide high-quality work gives them the leverage to negotiate higher fees.

Gelo: Adds that understanding when to raise rates is crucial for freelancers, especially as they gain more experience and expertise in their field. He reinforces the idea that raising rates is a natural part of growing as a freelancer.

21:12 - 22:43

Gab: Discusses how to assess your worth as a freelancer, advising that you should look at your experience and compare it with the rates of others in your field. He suggests checking LinkedIn or Indeed to see what others with similar experience are charging.

Gelo: Adds that it’s important to know your market value, which can vary by region. For example, rates in the US or Canada may be based on yearly salaries, while in other countries, it's more common to charge hourly or monthly.

Gab: Continues by highlighting that inflation and other economic factors (like rising gasoline prices) might affect the rates clients are willing to pay. If the cost of living rises, you could use this as a reason to justify raising your rates.

22:43 - 24:24

Gelo: Emphasizes the importance of documenting the value you provide as a freelancer. By keeping a record of your achievements (such as improvements and results), you can use this information to justify a rate increase during negotiations. He suggests that for those new to the industry, even if you don't have many years of experience, you can still compile a report of what you’ve contributed over the past year or six months. This will give clients a reason to consider raising your salary.

Gab: Adds that it’s important to set clear milestones and expectations with clients, especially when discussing rate changes. He stresses that negotiations shouldn’t be spontaneous; instead, approach them with data and reasoning about your contributions and ROI.

24:24 - 25:13

Gab: Talks about clients who might offer performance-based pay or commissions, particularly when you demonstrate consistent results. He stresses that showing value through clear and effective reports (monthly, quarterly, yearly) can lead clients to naturally offer raises or commissions.

Gelo: Emphasizes that if you’re consistently doing great work, clients will notice and may voluntarily offer better pay or incentives.

25:13 - 27:31

Gelo and Gab: Discuss how to stay motivated despite rejection or termination from clients. Gelo shares a story of someone who learned to move forward quickly after being let go, understanding that new opportunities will come along.

Gab: Advises having a growth mindset and continuously improving your profile, portfolio, and testimonials on platforms like LinkedIn or Upwork to increase your chances of success in the future. He stresses that rejection isn’t the end, and your skills can always be improved.

Gelo: Adds that you should always remember that rejections or terminations might not be about you personally. Other external factors, such as a client’s changing business goals or the global economy, might be at play. Keep a positive attitude and stay motivated.

27:31 - 29:46

Gelo and Gab: Discuss how to handle situations when a client comes back after a bad experience. Gab advises keeping communication open rather than burning bridges. Even if a client rejected your proposal or terminated your services, it’s still worth maintaining a professional relationship, as circumstances could change.

Gelo: Adds that even though some clients may seem like a red flag, they could be a valuable connection or referral source in the future. Networking with former clients can bring unexpected opportunities, and even if they shift focus (e.g., from SEO to paid ads), they may still refer you to others in need of your expertise.

29:46 - 31:12

Gelo: Emphasizes the importance of keeping composure in client interactions, especially when things aren’t going well. Even if you feel frustrated or upset, maintaining a professional demeanor can make a significant difference in the long run. Gab agrees, noting that this professionalism helps you avoid burning bridges and potentially leads to future opportunities.

Gelo: Wraps up by sharing how clients may later refer you to others or bring you back after realizing the value you provide, especially if they’ve shifted their business focus.

31:12 - 31:58

Gab: Talks about how after a year of working with a client, it’s natural to expect a rate increase. He points out that as you gain experience and results, raising your rates is part of growing in your freelance career.

Gelo: Echoes this sentiment, reinforcing that everyone should strive for financial growth and continually improve their skills to increase their earning potential.

31:58 - 32:29

Gelo: Thanks listeners who have sent in their stories, whether they are freelancers or agency workers, and invites others to submit their experiences for future episodes. He mentions that listeners can send stories to SEO Kwentuhan’s page or to Coach Gab directly for a chance to receive SEO Kwentuhan merch.

Gab: Wraps up by reminding listeners that SEO is a personal journey, and whether you're learning from others or reading up on best practices, it’s all about continuous learning. He encourages everyone to stay positive and keep tuning in.